3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ?

In Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton has opened a fifteen percentage point lead over Barack Obama. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey shows Clinton attracting 52% of the vote while Obama earns 37%.

In late February, before Clinton's comeback victories in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, the former First Lady's lead in the Keystone State was just four percentage points. The big difference between that poll and the current result is found a among men. Clinton now leads by seventeen percentage points among women and eleven among men. In the previous survey, she was ahead by fifteen points among women but trails by fourteen among men.

....It is possible that when the primaries come to an end, Obama will have won the most pledged delegates while Clinton will have won the popular vote. That is especially true if she wins by a significant margin in Pennsylvania

......" It is possible that the Clinton commercial about a 3:00 a.m. phone call at the White House has helped in Pennsylvania (see the commercial). Most Likely Democratic Primary voters have either seen the ad or have heard about it. Forty-eight percent (48%) of Likely Democratic Primary voters say that if such a call came, they'd want Clinton in the White House to answer it. Thirty percent (30%) would rather see Obama while 15% of these Democratic voters would prefer the Republican nominee, John McCain, to answer the call. Among men, 23% prefer McCain."

Those who think that Mccain would not draw in democrats especially blue collar folks in big industrial states based on an appeal on national security and patriotism should be worried about the 15% of democrats who want him to answer the phone.

Pennsylvania would be a battle ground state with Obama or Clinton on the ticket . National security and foreign policy would be one of the most important issues in the general election.

Despite the fact that the democrats in their primaries largely refuse to talk about national security with Mccain at the top of the ticket there would be no escaping it in the general.

If Obama is the nominee he has to be confident enough to fight on the national security front and not complain that the 3 am ad is fearmongering.

Some of us want to hear more about national security and how Obama intends to fight terrorism , win the battles in afganistan and iraq.

Harking back to I spoke out against the war would not be enough.

Both Clinton and Obama should come up with a better answer to this question

- Is the surge working ?

That is the basis on which the iraq war debate would be fought in the fall with Mccain on the ticket.

The answer they both give falls right into the hands of Mccain.

Democrats have dropped the ball on Iraq due to the inability of party leaders in and outside congress to come out with a consistent position on iraq and giving in to the president on iraq by the democratic congress has really put the iraq war as a toss up in the general election.

Going into Pennslyvania , National security and the economy would be key issues because of these same blue collar voters , Reagan democrats and older voters.

Negative campaigning would not work a whole lot there

PA

Clinton 52

Obama   37

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c ontent/politics/election_20082/2008_pres idential_election/pennsylvania/pennsylva nia_democratic_presidential_primary

P.S. - What happens if Obama is ahead in pledged delegates and Clinton is leading in popular votes at the end of the process.

Dean is urging a do over in FL , MI and it is possible she would come out of this process with a lead in popular votes.

" Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean urged Florida and Michigan party officials to come up with plans to repeat their presidential nominating contests so that their delegates can be counted."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_o n_el_pr/primary_scramble



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Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

I posted this on another thread but so far have not gotten an answer, and really would like one.  It seems relevant to the above discussion of the 3 a.m. ad:

Okay, I support Obama. I know why I consider him fit to answer that phone at 3 a.m.  

Without mentioning that Hillary Clinton was the wife of a former president (she did not have top security clearance for most of that time to my understanding, correct me if I am wrong), and without trashing my candidate, can someone elucidate why they believe she has the better credentials for this.  I don't doubt her ability, but she advertises credentials, and I'm not sure how they are so different from his.

I have not seen any clear answer to this and would be happy to read a non-Obama-bashing description of what makes her the better candidate (based on her experience) for national security matters.


by mady on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:00:17 PM EST

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (2.00 / 0)

I can come up with a list from her position on armed forces committee , to her knowledge of military matters , to her respect from the military , to her years in the whitehouse being involved in national security matters in rwanda , bosnia , ireland etc..

.... And we will both still be in disagreement.

In politics people vote with their emotions and perception , she has crossed the threshold with voters no matter what some may think the reality is.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:05:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

I actually am eager to listen, and I would.  Don't downplay the role of facts.

By the way, Rwanda is a sore point with me.  Bill Clinton, and he apologized for this in Rwanda later, many lives lost later, declared Rwanda a genocide-like situatiion rather than genocide, so the U.S. did not have to lift a finger to stop it.  I blame him for his hypocrisy in this, but I would not include her in this massive, costly, and repulsive mistake because she was not the one in power at the time, and I have no idea what she would have done under the cirmstances.  Rwanda is a very very bad recommendation for Bill, and irrelevant for Hillary.  If you need the facts to back this up, even the videos I can go on line and find them, but in the face of the most massive foreign affairs catastrophe of his tenure, he was evasive in his description of it and did nothing.  

I voted for him and actually liked the guy til that point, but he took, as usual, the easy way out and one of the worst holocausts in history was left to occur.


by mady on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton was pushing for Bill Clinton to act in Rwanda , he was slow to act and he failed .

She was pushing for him to act sooner.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/mar /31/usa.rwanda

I think you are probably right about that, but do you have anything to back up that statement that I can see.  I am trying to come to terms with this and its affect on my view of Hillary Clinton so if she is the winner I don't have to hate the fact that I have to vote for her.  Some proof she argued this with him would be helpful.

My family includes survivors of the Holocaust and when Rwanda happened and I watched the lies from our governement and other Western governments, I grew so sick of Bill Clinton's total hypocrisy about human rights.  It was all about Eastern Europe and nothing to prevent this.


by mady on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

For her role in the white house you can read this piece by Sally bedell smith.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/81600/page/1


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

Bill Clinton said that she had disagreed with him during his presidency, but he said that when she was a candidate.  I'm looking for some proof of what she believed in the White House.  She was strong enough to stand up for her health care policy, why not for this?

This is what I'm talking about here, and it is a huge issue with me, the human rights issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68XlAMy0k -s


by mady on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

By the way, if she ever came out and publickly addressed this issue (she claims her White House years as part of her resume) I would like her a lot more.  To me, this decision by the Clinton administration has always been the elephant in the living room in this campaign.  I know that is not the general concern on both sides, it is personal for me and I would really like to make it go away.


by mady on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

Lori, I agree with you that the larger Dem Party has really dropped the ball on the surge.  It is really, really hard for either of our candidates to carry the ball on the messaging without a coherent set of talking points that the party as a whole subscribes to.  It ties into the whole lack of a message machine on the Dem side that compares in any way to what the GOP has.

I have two main points on the 3am ad in general:

1) whether you choose to think the ad is fair or unfair, reality is that if Obama cannot effectively respond to this ad when the opponent is Hillary Clinton and the audience is Democratic primary voters, he has zero chance against John McCain in front of the general election audience.  In terms of establishing credibility on national security, which is always a challenge for Dems, Hillary is the junior varsity opponent and he needs to show he can put her away.

2) whining about fearmongering is the classic Dem response to this sort of gambit and it never works.  It will score you points with the pundits and the other folks who like to play referee in a Democratic primary, but it will get you nowhere with actual voters who have concerns about national security.  Obama needs to stick to his guns and make the case for himself boldly and unapologetically - something he's more than capable of doing - and discourage his supporters and surrogates from playing the whining game.  The media has stopped covering every attack like "oh look, there goes Hillary being a bitch again" and you can't win the general election that way anyhow.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 12:56:04 PM EST

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

I don't think Obama can put her away on this issue. At least his response to the three am ad was very weak and the ad that she later countered that ad with was deadly. Obama didn't even hold ONE meeting on Afghanistan for an entire year? I just don't see any rhetoric he can come up with that will counter the fact that he did nothing.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 01:35:49 PM EST
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Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

I personally don't understand what goes on inside the heads of people who are moved by ads like this, so I can't really say how much salience the issue has in the end.  It's like we're a nation of bed-wetters or something.

As a wise blogger pointed out, if the most important thing we expect from the government is to keep us safe - as opposed to, say, protecting our rights - then we really didn't need to declare independence from Britain in the first place.  They were keeping us plenty safe.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 04:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 3 am ad helping Clinton in Pennsylvania ? (none / 0)

Here's my little opinion:
The whole "anti war" candidate goes back to Vietnam. It has been demagouged forever and identified with "weak on national security" in the voters minds. People think that an anti-war candidate won't defend the country ever. Even if we are attacked they wouldn't respond. The whole "anti war" issue should have been dealt with decades ago but it wasn't so the mentality that goes along with it has never been challenged. Obama identifying himself as being the "anti war" candidate also idenitifies with "weak on security.

As Bill Clinton has said, the American people will choose "strong and wrong" over "weak and right" everytime. And that's what seems to be playing out here.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 07:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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